7.5.7 想去哪儿去哪儿 To Think Where to Go is Arriving There

 

我引导话题地问：“舅舅，你有没有见鬼的经历，比如看见已经过世的人；或者感觉身上有东西，比如虫子、小老鼠在爬什么的？”

舅舅瞪大了眼睛，反问：“有怎么的？没有怎么的？” （注1，他在防卫自己，保护自己的隐私。）

I steered the conversation by asking: "Uncle, have you ever experienced seeing ghosts, such as seeing someone who has passed away; or feeling something on your body, such as bugs or mice crawling or something?"

Uncle's eyes widened and he asked rhetorically: "Any how? No how?" (Note 1, he's on the defensive, protecting his privacy.)

我回答：“没什么！你病了半年多了，身体变得虚弱了，或者保持某种姿势久了，就可能产生幻觉。幻觉过去被称作鬼。”

舅舅问：“那是为什么？怎么造成的？”

I replied: "Nothing! You've been sick for more than six months, and when your body becomes weak, or when you stay in a certain position for a long time, you may hallucinate. Hallucinations used to be called ghosts."

Uncle asked: "Then why? How is it caused?"

我回答：“幻觉和梦一样，都是正常的生理现象，人就有时候做梦，有时候有幻觉。”

舅舅问：“幻觉和过去的经历有关系吗？”

I answered: "Hallucinations, like dreams, are normal physiological phenomena; people just sometimes dream and sometimes have hallucinations."

Uncle asked: "Do hallucinations have anything to do with past experiences?"

我回答：“幻觉和梦类似，当然也不会无中生有，应该说和过去的经历有关系。有人胡思乱想地解梦，也有人胡乱联系地解释幻觉现象，自寻烦恼。幻觉就是过去人所说的鬼，什么胳肢鬼，淘气鬼，索命鬼，什么的。”

I answered: "Hallucinations are similar to dreams, of course they don't come from nothing, so we should say that they are related to past experiences. Some people interpret dreams in a haphazard manner, while others interpret the phenomenon of hallucinations in a haphazardly connected manner, at their own peril. Hallucinations are what people used to call ghosts, what tickling ghosts, naughty ghosts, life-suppressing ghosts, whatever."

7.5.7-2 鬼神境界 Realm of Ghosts and Gods

由此，我系统地讲述触觉、听觉和视觉的幻觉现象，和处理办法（如图7.5-1至8，参见第12章《禅》）。

舅舅说：“我明白了，有幻觉了，无论是什么感觉，无论什么声音，无论什么样儿，反正都是幻觉，性质都一样儿，喜欢，可以逗它玩；不喜欢了，就像对待小孩儿一样，赶它走，出声地说，‘你走开’。”

From this, I systematically describe the tactile hallucinations, auditory hallucinations, Visual Hallucinations, and how to deal with them (see figures 7.5-1 to 8, see Chapter 12 Meditation).

Uncle said: "I understand, when there is a hallucination, no matter what kind of feeling, no matter what kind of sound, no matter what kind of thing, it's all a hallucination, and it's all of the same nature; if you like it, you can tease it; if you don't like it, you can just drive it away like a child, and say out with sound, 'Go away!' "

我回答：“对！幻境中的影像是思想的 ‘想’；彼是内虑所托。刚才说的都是局部幻觉，整体呢？阴间的整个世界，即幻境，也是随着你的思想意志改变的。比如说，你忽然有个想法， ‘天堂’。在幻境中，就在你想 ‘天堂’ 二字的同时，你的 ‘想’ 取来了天堂的形象，接着无意识就按匹配，生成了天堂的幻境。你就到了天堂了。”

I replied: "Right! The images in the hallucinations are the 'thoughts' of the mind; they are held by internal considerations. What I have just said is a localized hallucination; what about the whole? The whole world of the netherworld, i.e., the realm of hallucination, also changes with the will of your thoughts. For example, you suddenly have a thought, 'Heaven'. In the hallucination just as you think the word 'heaven', your 'Think' takes the image of heaven, and then the unconscious, by matching, generates the realm of heaven. So, you arrive in heaven."

舅舅问：“想去哪儿去哪儿，任何地方，任何情况下？”

我回答：“完全正确！刚才说的 ‘蹬墙入画’ 的例子，就是进入了太虚幻境，也就是进入了阴间那个平等世界。你进去之后，开始时，那里很小，很快便生成了一个世界。”

舅舅问：“然后呢？”

Uncle asked: "Wherever you want to go, whatever, in any situation?"

I replied: "Exactly! The example of 'stepping into the wall and entering the painting' that I just mentioned is entering the realm of netherworld (including heaven), that is, entering that world of equality in the netherworld. When you go in, at first, it is very small there, and soon a world is generated."

Uncle asked: "And then what?"

我回答：“到了另一个世界，开始时，那里还是很小，很快便生成了一个大的世界。一个世界从形成到崩坏就是一大劫。一大劫就是一个永恒。阴寿有很多大劫，或说有很多个恒时。”

舅舅说：“我明白了，我遇到的奇怪现象就是这个世界和那个世界逐渐地连接了；我要死了！”

I replied: "When you went to the other world, it was still small at first and soon a large world was generated. A world from its formation to its collapse is a great catastrophe. A great catastrophe is an eternity. There are many great catastrophes, or eternities, in the after life (including netherworld and heaven)."

Uncle said: "I see, the strange phenomenon I am experiencing is that this world and that world is gradually connecting; I am going to die!"

我对舅舅的说法感觉惊讶，回答：“可以说是这个世界和幻觉世界有了连接，但不说明你要死了。我小时候练气功，常去那里玩，可我现在还活得好好的，没死。有幻觉经历和死亡没关系，只是幻觉世界是人们对死亡世界描述的来源。”

Feeling surprised at my uncle's statement, I replied: "It can be said that there is a connection between this world and the world of hallucination, but it does not mean that you are going to die. I practiced meditation when I was a child and used to go there, but I am still alive and not dead. Having hallucinatory experiences has nothing to do with death, except that the hallucinatory world is the source of people's descriptions of the world of death."

7.5.7-3 痛苦吗？Is It Painful?

舅舅问：“那里很可怕，很痛苦吧？”

我回答：“很新奇，不可怕。当身体的感觉没了的时候，就可以说那里是阴间，天堂，也可以说是地狱。不痛苦，很舒服的。我说了，我小时候练气功，去过那里多次，我很喜欢去那里探索世界。那里就是基督教和伊斯兰教所宣扬的 ‘大审判’的现场。”

舅舅问：“怎么天堂和地狱是一个地方？你慢慢说！别落下，那儿怎么就是西方人所说的大审判的现场？”

Uncle asked: "It's scary and painful there, right?"

I replied: "It's very novel, not scary. When the physical sensation is gone, you can say that it is the underworld, heaven, or hell. It is not painful and very comfortable. As I said, I practiced Meditation when I was a child. I’ve been there many times, and I love going there and exploring the world. That is the place of the "Great Judgment" preached by Christianity and Islam.”

Uncle asked, "How come heaven and hell are the same place? Tell me slowly! Don't leave out anything. How come that place is what Westerners call the Great Judgment?"

我回答：“好，两个问题，先回答第一个。那里是日常积累的业习气自发的世界。邪恶的人，日常就生活在暴乱和恐怖之中；到了那里，他的业习气自发的世界就是地狱。好人的生活和平快乐，到了那里，他的业习气自发的世界也是和平和欢乐，人们就说他进入了天堂。”

I answered: " Okay, two questions, let me answer the first one first. That is the world where the karmic habits accumulated daily are spontaneous. Evil people live in riots and terror every day here. Once there, the world where their karmic habits are spontaneous is hell. Good people live peaceful and happy lives here. The world where his or her karmic habits are spontaneous is also peaceful and joyful, so people say that he or she has entered heaven.”

舅舅回答：“我听明白了，尽管不太懂！好人到了那里就是到了天堂；坏人到了那里就是进了地狱。为什么中国人所说的阴间是西方人所说的大审判呢？”

Uncle replied, "I understand, though I don't quite understand why! Good people go to heaven there; and bad people also go there, but there is hell. Why is the Chinese concept of the underworld equivalent to the Western notion of the Big Judgment?”

我回答：“那里是无意识基于尘世的业而自发的世界。那里没有时间，是永恒的世界，或说那里是过去现在和未来重合的世界。无意识古做神识。所以我们所说的阴间就被西方的古人说成了 ‘大审判’：上帝把过去的众生，现在的众生，和将来的众生都召集在一起，进行大审判，好人升天，坏人进地狱。这只是我对前一个问题的另一种回答；这两种回答所说的是同一件事。”

I replied: "That is the unconscious spontaneously arising from mortal karma. There is no time there—it is an eternal world, or rather, a realm where past, present, and future converge. The unconscious was anciently called God-sense. Thus, what we call the underworld was described by the ancients of the West as the ‘Great Judgment’: God gathers all beings of the past, present, and future together for a great judgment, where the good ascend to heaven and the wicked descend into hell. This is merely another way of answering the previous question; both answers describe the same affair."

舅舅想了好长的时间，说：“原因一样，结果也一样，只是说法不同。这事你是听谁说的？”

我回答：“我小时候喜欢练习气功。这是那些气功书上的法师们（相当于西方的牧师）讨论出来的。我们不讨论西方人的事，那些事对我们的影响很少。我们讨论我们文化中的迷惑。”

Uncle thought for a long time before saying, “The cause is the same, the result is the same—only the explanation differs. Who told you this?”

I replied, “When I was young, I enjoyed practicing qigong (i.e., meditation). This was discussed by the juristic teachers (equivalent to Western priests) in those qigong books. We don't discuss Western matters; they have little influence on us. We discuss the confusion within our own culture.”

4

舅舅叨咕：“是这么回事！那里有多可怕，多痛苦？”

我回答：“就像是到了一个新的地方。刚进去的时候，还有身体的记忆。身体像是一个影子。接着，身体就没了。没了身体，就没有身体的痛苦了。像你，肺癌很疼，在那儿，就没有疼的感觉。没有身体痛苦就很少，可以忽略了。”

舅舅问：“那后来你怎么不去那里了？不练气功了？”

Uncle muttered: "That's what it is! How terrible and painful is it there?"

I answered: "It's like arriving in a new place. When I first entered, there was still the memory of the body. The body was like a shadow. Then, the body was gone. Without the body, there is no physical pain. Like you, lung cancer is very painful here. There is no physical pain, so it can be ignored."

Uncle asked: "Then why didn't you go there anymore? Didn't you practice meditation?"

我回答：“后来，我发现去那儿会产生阳寿中（即日常生活中）记忆的丢失。例如，一次，我听见我爸问我妈，‘卢岩怎么不生气了，我还以为他得生气几天呢！’ 我妈回答，‘可能是他又练气功了。有时候他练完气功就高兴，前后院儿跑，看哪儿哪儿新鲜，像似多天没回家了似的。’ 再比如，有同学对我说，‘哎，咱俩前天不是打架了吗，你怎么跟没事似的？’ 我想，‘呀，我怎么不记得了呢！’ 我就发现了，入定（幻觉状态）会造成短期记忆的遗失（幻境刷新了临时或短期记忆）。这要是我忘了过去两年的事，那我不得回去读小学了么！我就不练气功了。”

I answered: "Later, I discovered that going there would cause memory loss in the solar light world (that is daily life, or vessel world). For example, once, I heard my dad ask my mom, 'Why is Luyan not angry anymore? I thought he must be angry for several days.’ My mother replied, ‘Maybe he practiced meditation again. Sometimes he is happy after practicing meditation and runs around looking at everything, as if he hasn't been home for many days." For another example, a classmate said to me, ‘Hey, we had a fight the day before yesterday. Why did you act like nothing happened?’ I thought, ‘Oh, why don't I remember it?’ I discovered that the state of trance (hallucination) causes the loss of short-term memory (the hallucination refreshes the preconscious and short-term memory). If I forget past for two years, then I must go back to primary school! Then I stopped practicing meditation."

舅舅说：“啊！在那儿越活越年轻。”

我回答：“到了那里，就感觉像似几岁的孩子。 我不是就在给你送终，送你回老家吗！ 那里是神的世界，我在送你归位。”

Uncle said: "Ah! The longer you live there, the younger you become."

I replied: "When I get there, I feel like a child of several years old. Aren't I just seeing you off and sending you back to your old home? That is the world of God, and I am sending you back to your original position."

7.5.7-4 如果我走错路了怎么办？What if I go the wrong way?

舅舅感叹：“还真是回老家啊！如果我走错路了，怎么办？”

我回答：“不论你在哪儿，西天极乐世界，还是龙宫，地狱，还是和玉皇大帝在一起，你都是 ‘想去哪儿去哪儿，立刻就到’。对了！刘健君当时告诉我，可得注意点儿：你别把你舅舅送错地方了！”

舅舅问：“怎么还能送错地方？”

Uncle exclaimed: "It's really back home! What if I go the wrong way?"

I replied: "No matter where you are, the Western Paradise of Ultimate Bliss, the Dragon's Palace, Hell, or with Turquoise White-king Great Creator, you are 'going wherever you think of simultaneously. ' Right! Eve Liu told me at the time, be careful: you don't send your uncle to the wrong place!"

Uncle asked: "How could it be sent to the wrong place?"

我回答：“刘健君说有。就在她们医院里，有个老太太，她理想很特别，想下辈子在一个什么庵做个侍女。超渡的法师讲完离开后，她就不明白了。后来，那个老太太的家人就问那个法师是不是给讲错地方了？那个法师说：‘地方是真的错不了，全中国64种宗教都去那一个地方，就是用词或说法不一样。对于基督教和伊斯兰教徒，我们也是这么超渡的，就是换个名字，送他们去见上帝或者安拉。”

I answered: "Eve Liu said yes. In their hospital, there was an old lady with very special ideals. She wanted to be a maid in some nunnery in her next life. After the juristic teacher finished speaking and left, she got confused. Later, the old lady's family asked the juristic teacher if he had sent her the wrong place. The teacher said, ‘The place is not wrong. All 64 religions (including Christian and Islam) in China go to that same place, but the words or expressions are different." Christians and Muslims also are transcendently ferried in this way, just by changing their names and sending them to see God or Allah.”

舅舅问：“怎么所有宗教都一样？”

我回答：“刘健君从小就听她爸爸给别人讲这个，她研究生实习的时候，发现法师到医院超渡将死的病人。她跟那些法师熟了，就问他们。她发现，所有的法师都用这几句话，都用这几个道理来超渡，不同的宗教说法和用词不一样，比如神教把无意识称作神，佛教称作佛，现代心理学称作无意识，都是人们所说的良心。”

Uncle asked: "Why are all religions the same?"

I answered: "Eve Liu has heard her father tell this to others since she was a child. When she was doing her postgraduate internship, she found that juristic teachers went to the hospital to transcendently ferry dying patients. She became familiar with those masters, so she asked them. She found that all the masters use these words and principles to transcend. Different religions have different expressions and terms. For example, theistic religions call the unconscious God, Buddhism calls it Buddha, and modern psychology calls it the unconscious. All are people so-called conscience.”

返回超渡的目录 Return to Catalog of Transcendently Ferry